Comments on: Inside-Outside Algorithm for Macro Grammars https://icgi2020.lis-lab.fr August 23-27, 2021 Tue, 31 Aug 2021 11:12:32 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=7.1 By: Ryuta Kambe https://icgi2020.lis-lab.fr/inside-outside-algorithm-for-macro-grammars/#comment-30 Mon, 23 Aug 2021 16:05:12 +0000 https://icgi2020.lis-lab.fr/?page_id=484#comment-30 In reply to François Coste.

Yes we have removed rules which have lower probabilities than a certain threshold.

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By: François Coste https://icgi2020.lis-lab.fr/inside-outside-algorithm-for-macro-grammars/#comment-29 Mon, 23 Aug 2021 14:46:02 +0000 https://icgi2020.lis-lab.fr/?page_id=484#comment-29 In reply to Ryuta Kambe.

Another way of asking the question is: do you understand why you are able to learn the languages with your algorithm.
In particular, do you actually prune rules with non-zero weights?

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By: Makoto Kanazawa https://icgi2020.lis-lab.fr/inside-outside-algorithm-for-macro-grammars/#comment-28 Mon, 23 Aug 2021 14:13:23 +0000 https://icgi2020.lis-lab.fr/?page_id=484#comment-28 In reply to Naoki Kobayashi.

I don’t even know whether stochastic indexed grammars have been considered before. I don’t think there would be a direct translation between the two stochastic formalisms. The stochastic part wouldn’t correspond. I imagine the situation would be similar to what happens with, e.g., left-corner transform of CFGs.
(Maybe it’s somewhat easier to work with OI context-free tree grammars, rather than OI macro grammars, as the starting point.)

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By: Naoki Kobayashi https://icgi2020.lis-lab.fr/inside-outside-algorithm-for-macro-grammars/#comment-25 Mon, 23 Aug 2021 13:27:29 +0000 https://icgi2020.lis-lab.fr/?page_id=484#comment-25 In reply to Makoto Kanazawa.

An interesting question. Do you know whether *stochastic* OI macro grammars are equivalent to *stochastic* indexed grammars?
If the answer is yes, and there is a constructive proof of the equivalence, you can certainly obtain stochastic indexed grammars from our algorithm. Otherwise, I am not sure.

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By: Makoto Kanazawa https://icgi2020.lis-lab.fr/inside-outside-algorithm-for-macro-grammars/#comment-24 Mon, 23 Aug 2021 12:28:27 +0000 https://icgi2020.lis-lab.fr/?page_id=484#comment-24 OI macro grammars are known to be equivalent to indexed grammars. Can you think of a way to approach stochastic indexed grammars based on this work?

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By: Ryuta Kambe https://icgi2020.lis-lab.fr/inside-outside-algorithm-for-macro-grammars/#comment-22 Mon, 23 Aug 2021 10:57:36 +0000 https://icgi2020.lis-lab.fr/?page_id=484#comment-22 In reply to François Coste.

Thank you for asking. I’m afraid I don’t know whether we can get an algorithm in a similar way to the two previous talks. There may be different approaches for learning (non-stochastic) macro grammars and they could be investigated further, but our experiments were intended to confirm whether we can get optimal probability assignments of stochastic macro grammars through our algorithm.

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By: François Coste https://icgi2020.lis-lab.fr/inside-outside-algorithm-for-macro-grammars/#comment-17 Mon, 23 Aug 2021 09:37:04 +0000 https://icgi2020.lis-lab.fr/?page_id=484#comment-17 Your experiments show interestingly that your approach can learn the non-stochastic part of stochastic macro grammars.
I have the impression that you could do this without using Inside-Out and get an algorithm that learns macro grammars from only the presence and absence of substrings (?), and not their counts, in a way similar to the two previsous talks. Am I completely wrong or is this something that could be investigated?

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